"I don't see any aiding and abetting
allegation in the indictment on the first four counts... What I really should have asked is, what's the
authority...?" ~JUDGE A. HOWARD MATZ
JUDGE A. HOWARD MATZ:
"I don't see any aiding and abetting
allegation in the indictment on the first four counts...
It's a
straightforward charge of willfullytransmitting the threats. Why do we need and what would be the basis for
including an aiding and abetting instruction as to that?"
MS. DUARTE: "Not off the top of my head. I know that
there are cases that say that aiding and abetting of Section 2
is a component of every indictment whether or not it's
explicitly there."
JUDGE A. HOWARD MATZ: "I think you are right, but here is what
I'm going to direct you to do. I'm not going to delete it right now because I think it's a correct way to proceed, and
there hasn't even been an objection by the defendant.
In any event,
instruction 23C, currently on page 26 of the set that I've
circulated to the parties this morning, is a correct statement
of what a true threat is..., namely, the reasonable objective person test. Would you like to be heard, Killercop?"
KILLERCOP: "Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
Your Honor, I think what we have here is -- the issue
is that the Court and other parties are trying to define what
is "true."
And I'm sure Your Honor is wise enough to know that
that's like trying to define common. There is nothing so
uncommon as common sense.
The issue here is a "threat," not what's "true." That's for the jury to decide.
The case law, which goes back for almost a hundred
years, nobody has been able to define -- the Supreme Court, to
my knowledge, has never defined a "threat.''
This is the standing case law for the Ninth Circuit,
Your Honor: The Kelner case, the Roy -- this is what the
instruction --"
JUDGE A. HOWARD MATZ: Kelner is Second Circuit. I've looked at
these cases. They are old cases and they are not cases that
define "threat in the careful manner, in the more recent
manner, than the Ninth Circuit did in 1999.
But I can't understand -- I want to make sure I do
understand. If you look at 23C in the set that I've circulated, what is your real objection? Are you simply
proposing that the word "true" be deleted, on line 3 and on
line 4?
Because I know that some circuits
define it as to what the "reasonable listener would interpret
and the other circuits have the "reasonable speaker" [test].
Once we start splitting hairs , using adjectives, as I
tried to demonstrate with Agent Cugno, when he first took the
stand, you get lost on a tangent. You lose sight of the fact as to what is a threat.
UPDATE: 2010, IT WAS THE "OBJECTIVE REASONABLE PERSON LISTENER TEST. WHICH IS A "GENERAL INTENT" CRIME, NOT A "SPECIFIC INTENT" CRIME. YET KILLERCOP WAS CHARGED WITH 875(C), WHO'S NATURE IS A SPECIFIC INTENT CRIME.
"what would be the capacity of law enforcement
and of the courts to SUPRESS this kind of SPEECH?" -Judge A. Howard Matz, PRE-TRIAL HEARING OF KILLERCOP.COM
Here is the rule of law: Wherever Law ends, Tyranny begins. And that's a fact! Why? CauseIsaySo!! You are not entitled to anymore information, 'cause ya got no right to it. Git it? I bet you will soon enough. I'm all a Twitter waiting to see your reaction, to my reaction, to your Treatment. You'll just die when you see what I have in store for everyone in 2010.
Now move along folks, nothing more to see. Make like a Quack and disappear like Dr. Who.
“Generally, an
indictment is sufficient if it sets forth the elements of the
charged offense so as to ensure the right of the defendant not
to be placed in double jeopardy and to be informed of the
offense charged.” United States v. Rodriguez, 360 F.3d 949,
958 (9th Cir. 2004) (internal quotation marks omitted).
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